November 2009 - MCC - Discussion Thread

[xaer0knight]

Originally Posted by ALEX Ryugami

@KlassyReborn: Oops, I just mistyped my last post, it should be "I want it can eat either opponents' creatures or mine if the only player that controlling creatures is me (that could including itself)"

I'll edit the post

i think this would give it just a little more balance and not too over powered. He eats your opponents creatures for Lunch!

Deathtouch
If a creature damaged by THIS is put in the graveyard, put a +1/+1 conter on THIS.
If it was a Human, put a +2/+2 counter on THIS instead.

(you could also add, Creature damaged by THIS, can't be regenerated.)

[xaer0knight]

Originally Posted by FuDaWg45

That is true.

Also, bushido is not a blue mechanic - it has been on exactly 1 blue card, and that card is in an Un set. So no go there.

The second ability is also a pump ability - something blue never does. If I was designing this card, I would probably make it white.

Plural of octopus is octopuses. Octopi is also acceptable.

i think its a fun card. maybe for a Blue Samurai, Flanking would be acceptable. The pump up ability, there isn't much for blue. now something like TAP target creature gains Flanking or Sacrfice THIS all creatures you control gain Flanking. The only Blue pump up cards i can think of are Unstable Mutation, Ghostly Wings, Essence Flare, and Infiltrator's Magemark (those are just Auras of the top of me head).

[JakeKessler]

Flanking is kind of not blue either. I think there's like one blue creature with flanking.

[xaer0knight]

Originally Posted by JakeKessler

Flanking is kind of not blue either. I think there's like one blue creature with flanking.

but is that an Un-card? hows about Phasing then :-P

[Le_Mirage]

Still, i think the point is that if you want to make a set based massively upon samurai combat to all colors, then you have to accomodate the martial abilities to all of them to a reasonable degree.
That means, for example, that if blue creatures are not going to have flying (not so samurai), another suitable set of martial abilities would be called for, even if, normally, blue would not have them.

Personally, i would leave bushido to all color since it's "the" samurai ability. Even some limited pumping ability would not be that bad, since the main martial colors were still going to have the better of them.

[MTG59895]

I am considering upgrading Model Citizen to the following. Is the card now overpowered?

[JakeKessler]

Axe the flavor text and find better art. Also consider modeling the ability off of Sakashima the Impostor.

[Your Worst Nightmare]

Originally Posted by JakeKessler

I thought about each of these, but each has their own issues. You want an extra kind of counter on a 'walker, let alone two unique counters if it has both abilities, plus all its loyalty counters?

UEOT isn't really appropriate because the flavor is teaching. The 'walkers shouldn't forget what they learn after they do it once.

Ultimately, you have a good point (or YWN had a good point) in a general sense about cards... but I don't think it's that hard to remember that a planeswalker can (+1: Draw a card) or (-5: Take an extra turn). It's certainly not enough of an issue to use erroneous counters or make them 'forgot' at EOT.

What do you think, YWN?

If your card's flavor is that it teaches a new ability to the planeswalker, why is it that when the planeswalker goes away and then you call him back, he already forgot the ability? For the ability to be perfectly flavorful, it'd need to read "Inscribe with a pen or permanent marker "+1: Draw a card" on target planeswalker you control." So since it won't be completely flavorful anyway, you should instead make the card give the ability automatically to your planeswalkers as long as it's on the battlefield. "I can show you how it's done, and I'll help you do it so long as I'm around, but I warn you it takes decades' worth of training to do it by yourself, young grasshopper, do I doubt you'll be able to do it by yourself when I'm gone"-kind of deal maybe?

But that's not really what most bugs me about your card, but rather the phrase "target planeswalker you control." Wizards are always coming up with creative ways to deal with planeswalker cards that don't involve the phrase "Destroy target planeswalker" because that's simply not flavorful. A planeswalker card represents not the planeswalker but the contract you temporarily have with that planeswalker, because one can't kill planeswalkers just like that. So you can see that not even the suggestion I gave you is admitable. And if all that for "Destroy target planeswalker", you can imagine the fret that "Target planeswalker you control" would ensue. "So you control planeswalkers now? And you can teach them abilities too, heh? What, what they have isn't good enough for you? Snicker!"

It's pretty much a 'doomed if you do, doomed if you don't' situation. And yes memory issues are important, as planeswalkers can be killed and brought back to the field plenty of times during the course of a game, and having to remember "Did I already teach this ability to this incarnation of Jace?" can get tricky, despite being a simple ability. And now I've told you what I think, where you go from here is up to you.

Originally Posted by JakeKessler

As for the "type with a job" argument... the rules just say the card has to have two creature types. Not two races, two creature types. The rules don't even say you need to make the creature types mechanically relevant to the card's abilities, although Tribal cards (noncreature cards with creature types) would obviously need a reason to be Tribal.

I can't speak for YWN here, but I don't really see race-class creatures as being in violation of the "spirit of the contest", and they're certainly allowed within the rules.

There's certainly nothing against designing run-of-the-mill creature types like Human Wizard in this contest. But if come judging I end up having to choose between a Human Wizard and a Dreadnought Rigger Mutant for a certain position, the later is definitely most likely to get the higher position.

However, and as it should also be obvious, if the decision is between an ordinary Elf Warrior that's original, well designed and is pretty to look at and an awesome-sounding Skeleton Goat Berserker that's in contrast horribly worded, b0rken as hell and a complete eyesore, the Elf Warrior is definitely most likely to take home the prize.

Hopefully that should clear things up.


Now, it's useless for me to present in-detail considerations about the cards I see, because five minutes later they're already completely different ones. So if first impressions are the only things I have time to give before the cards change yet again, first impressions are what I'll give:

@Kamahl's Disciple, you should probably consider making your card rare. As Cosi's Trickster itself is rare (as well as Burning-Tree Shaman, for reference), and activating abilities happens more frequently in a game than shuffling one's library.

@GG Crono, considering when the card loses flying and gains trample is because it became too heavy, it should care about the number of +1/+1 counters on it rather than its toughness. A shield or armor isn't all that heavy, after all. And the previous ability should specify in which creature are the +1/+1 counters being put on, too. So basically, "Whenever Festering Zilant deals damage to a creature, put that many +1/+1 counters on Festering Zilant. / Festering Zilant loses flying and gains trample as long as it has 6 or more +1/+1 counters on it." Also, four mana for its cost should be more appropriate.

@MTG59895, what if I simply use Disfigure on an creature with this card on the field, can you explain to me what would happen like I was a newb? Because Disfigure's effect doesn't end just because you gained control of the creature, y'know?

@ZeroMk2, please make only ONE post in the submission thread, and delete all others. And make sure the card you wish to submit is in the post you didn't delete. Thank you.

@KlassyReborn, what program are you using to render your card? Aren't you able to use MSE on your computer? If it is MSE you're using to make that render, sheesh! In addition, that art doesn't look very Spirit-y to me.

@Streetz, would you sacrifice your Korlash to save your Hypnotic Specter? Large creatures get abilities to get more resilient or to make you win the game, they don't get self-sacrificial abilities, you know what I mean? Still, that is one beautiful-looking render right there.

@_b4g3r_, it doesn't really fit with the rest of the cycle. They weren't legendary, they weren't mythic, they could be cast for less when you were losing not when you're winning, and they would still be worth the hardcasting cost if the optional one wasn't available. Paying eight mana for a 3/3 creature with abilities other tribes get for a lot less mana are definitely not eight mana well spent.

@Sucros, saying a creature is balanced because it dies to removal is one thing. Calling a creature that if you don't remove turns all your cards absolutely useless is completely different. Light of Day is among Wizards' Unfun Cards list, because it completely shuts down a plethora of decks without so much a sweat drop. It's not something they'll do any time soon. "What about Platinum Angel," you ask? Well Platinum Angel doesn't cost four mana, now does it?

@Flyingtacos, I personally preferred your bug card, that one is too alike Lieutenant Kirtar.

@holy5, if the plural of a creature type would cause confusion, just worded it like Wren's Run Packmaster. With that out of the way, samurai fight fair and either in defense of their honor or at someone's bidding. Either way, blue is the color of deceit and trickiness, thus more associated with ninjas than samurai, as Kamigawa has shown us.

@Le_Mirage, I was pretty convinced what separated planeswalkers from regular humans was not how strong they were but the fact they could cast spells. So if turning a player into a measly regular non-spell-casting human doesn't really take away the spell-casting detail, it's not really making him/her a regular measly human, now is it?

And that's it for today. Here's hoping nothing got changed while I was writing this post. Those I did not addressed I simply had nothing to say, good or bad. And that in itself may be good or bad, pending on your point of view.

[JakeKessler]

Originally Posted by Your Worst Nightmare

... You should instead make the card give the ability automatically to your planeswalkers as long as it's on the battlefield.

That's a great idea. I'll do that.

**EDIT**

Implemented this approach. Also took out the "you control". Since your opponents now stand to benefit I lowered the cost to . On the one hand, this turns Chandra Nalaar into an automatic Time Warp (without killing her). On the other hand, that doesn't seem so broken if it costs you three extra mana, an extra card and committing to a mana base that supports double-blue.

Spoiler:

[Kamahl's Disciple]

Originally Posted by Your Worst Nightmare

@Kamahl's Disciple, you should probably consider making your card rare. As Cosi's Trickster itself is rare (as well as Burning-Tree Shaman, for reference), and activating abilities happens more frequently in a game than shuffling one's library.

Huh, for some reason I thought Cosi's Trickster was an uncommon... Well, what you said makes sense, so I will change the rarity.

[Cashew]

Still playing with simple fun ideas:



There's a lot of cross color hosing, but why isn't there a lot of cross color weakness?

[KlassyReborn]

i like it. with everyone playing tri-colored decks it's rare you'll finda deck that can't handle it.

[JakeKessler]

Originally Posted by Cashew

There's a lot of cross color hosing, but why isn't there a lot of cross color weakness?

"Destroy target nonblack creature"? Fear/seeker/red fear/intimidate?

... Yea, alright, that's about it.

I think this needs to be no less than mythic at 4/4-really-hard-to-kill-for-four-mana. Even then, it's really really good. Consider that it's nearly impossible to kill this guy in combat. He can keep turning sideways until you run out of blockers, or he can keep blocking until you stop attacking. He laughs off first strike and deathtouch... not to mention
Kalonian Behemoths and other stompies without trample. He's a tank. Black decks can still deal with him, but that's about it... even red decks, his supposed weakness, have to deal 4 damage at once to finish him off.

(Oh, by the way... why does the flavor text make it seem like red (fire) can't actually hurt him, when really it's the only thing that can?)

[Le_Mirage]

Originally Posted by Your Worst Nightmare

@Le_Mirage, I was pretty convinced what separated planeswalkers from regular humans was not how strong they were but the fact they could cast spells. So if turning a player into a measly regular non-spell-casting human doesn't really take away the spell-casting detail, it's not really making him/her a regular measly human, now is it?

Probably not, but players, who (at least in the pre-planeswalker game, i'am not sure about now ) are suppose to be planeswalker, start the game with 20 life, while we know from vanilla creatures that common human soldiers and wizards (who are suppose to be able to use magic as well) are usually 1/1.

In addition to that, as we know from planeswalker cards, not all the planeswalkers are human, and if they are, i think that is pretty reasonable that quite a lot of them have acquire the power to be far more strong than regular humans anyway, even if the started their life as mere scholars or commoners. The sense of my card is not to take away these powers, but to bind them to a miserable vessel of flesh that is easily killable.

anyway, the card must be fixed. Apart from it's mana cost, it should be worded "when humanization comes into play Enchanted player..." since, in the version i posted, the first ability is probably worded as a wrong static one, and by that it should overwrite every modify to the life total, even negative ones. On the other hand, by using a comes into play effect, the ability become stifleable, and even if it's a pretty weak drawback, i don't like it as it ruins the "inesorability" feeling of the card.
Is there a way to set the life total to 1 without using a triggered ability?

Originally Posted by JakeKessler

I think this needs to be no less than mythic at 4/4-really-hard-to-kill-for-four-mana. Even then, it's really really good.

Dont' know why but when i first read it i understood that it was immune to non-red instant and sorceries only, not creatures too...and i actually think that it would be a good fix and still a very decent uncommon.

[xaer0knight]

just playing around with penguins yes the Magellanic Penguin has Mountainwalk because of his breeding area of the Mountains in Chile