First Impressions: Future Sight - Part 4 (BLACK). by Tynion

[Streetz]

This thread is reserved for the dicussion of the following article:

http://www.magicdeckvortex.com/mdvarticle0263.htm

Please read it, enjoy it and discuss it here.

What did you like about the article? Was it inspiring, informational, ingenius? Was it inappropriate? Was there anything you really liked or didn't like about it?

Let the author know here!

Thanks!

**NOTE: This thread is posted before the article goes live. If the article isn't up yet, please check back later.

[death by aggro]

Tynion provides a valid point; Wizards suddenly hates the graveyard. Still, I don't see what's wrong when your eating there. Where else am I supposed to meet undead clients for business lunches? Still, good article.

[Phate]

Question: Why didn't they have someone who liked Black review the Black cards? Tynion, I'm gathering, is a Blue mage. So he's looking at everything through the lense of: Can this counter anything? Can anything counter it? No and yes? Well, then, it must suck. Grade H-.

Is this the Magic Deck Vortex? Isn't this what the casual players use? The majority of casual players aren't running monoblue control (yeah, I hear the "no, they use UW control!" already, thanks). If a player who appreciated discard, versatility, removal, and all those other wonderful things Black does had written this article, he would have looked at it from the view of "What COULD this do?" rather than "Assuming my opponent is Kai Budde, will this card save me?"

I don't know, it just sounded unnecessarily skeptical about the basic tenets of Black - of course you're going to grade a card low if you don't like the color it's in. That's the point; different players have different playing styles. If you're worried about losing a little life or p/t:mana cost ratio, or you don't care for discard or a graveyard-central game, if you don't appreciate the value of poison or steady creature removal, and last but certainly not least if you're talking about the finer points of the contrast between tournament-caliber decks and limited play and everything else (I'm in the everything else category, if you hadn't realized) on a site subtitled "What the casual players use!"...then of course you won't appreciate black cards. So leave your rants for the forums (like me, see?) and let someone who does grade them.

I'm not trying to be offensive (yes, I am. Ya wanna go?) towards Tynion or any fan club he may have, I just don't think this was the best article for him. Cheers.

[Kozy]

You know what the difference between a rant and an editorial is? I could deduce not. You see a rant is done in harsh tone or to offend people. And editorial does almost the same thing. It put's the writers opinions in the clear. But what it also does is explain. Gives facts about both sides and does so with no bias.

You see what you just did was a rant. What Tynion did was an editorial. You see he analysed the cards. Gave them subjective feedback and actually graded them.

What i found interesting is that you choose to act as if his opinions on the black future sight cards were that they all sucked and since he didn't like black he would give them all a bad rating. Because of this, I am not sure you read the whole article because alot of the cards he graded he gave Bs and As.

You like black. He doesn't this is a matter of opinion. Neither of you are right or wrong. However the person who gave the most information and approached the issue from both sides would have to be Tynion. I'm sorry. or i'm no

[Phate]

Yes, Kozy, I am familiar with the difference between a rant and an editorial. I was using the colloquial meaning, something like "speech communicating significant displeasure, generally not approached in a calm, indifferent, or objective manner" rather than the technical meaning. I still feel justified in calling it a rant, just as I'd call this or my previous post a rant. And yes, I think I was clear in displaying both my bias towards and his bias against black.

I read the entire article before posting, I swear. Ironically, some of the cards I liked least (not because they're useless, but because they're predictable and predictably boring) made up the majority of his A's and B's, while some of the kinkiest, craziest, most fun, most casual (in my opinion, mind you) cards were dismissed with one (or sometimes two) sarcastic and sometimes logically devoid sentence(s). This raised my ire, and I responded accordingly, ignoring the parts of his article I enjoyed (I did like the humour, 'twas refreshing, btw, Tynion, congrats)

And no, I didn't grade each individual card. My post was to critique (or lambast, as Tynion so accurately predicted) his article, rather than write a counter-article. And yes, I like black and that's a matter of opinion. My stand isn't that black is the greatest colour. My stand is that each colour should be reviewed by someone who appreciates that colour. The blue article was an excellent example of that. From the opening lines - "Black has always persuaded me not to play Black" - I had a strong suspicion that barring a quick "however," this article was not written by the right person.

As for your personal approval, you may personally approve anyone you like. Go ahead - I give you permission. But if I had been posting to earn someone's approval, I would have written a two-incomplete-sentence post congratulating the article and the humour and wrapped it up with a thumbs-up for grading a particularly good or bad card correctly, like many of the other responses I've seen in the First Impressions (and hell, all the other ones too) articles.

[Streetz]

Phate - thanks for your input.

One on the nice and bad things about set reviews is that the writer isn't going to like or hate every card -- it's just their personal view on the cards. If I had reviewed these cards, I would have had a similar response to many cards as Tynion as I don't like black.

You seem to have a good grasp on things -- I welcome you to help out with set reviews in the future -- if you would like to write one -- let me know. I can send you more information about writing for MDV. I'll even recommend you review the black cards.

[Tynion]

You know, even though you lambasted my article, thanks for the licks by the way, you have provided the best input and best arguement that I have had the pleasure of reading as a response to my work.

Having said that, I would like to point out a few things.

1st, In one of my previous articles, I'd have to research it as I can't remember which is it right now, I clearly stated that its my opinion that Black is the strongest color right now, and it is because of its strength of discard and creature removal. I stated before the planar chaos and future sight sets were released that Black is and will be for the near future, the best color, to my ire (I stole your word). I think the best way to show respect is by hating on something that you respect. I hate the Pittsburg Steelers. They crushed my Browns the other day, but I hate on them because I respect the entire organization. If the Browns lost to Cincinatti, I could care less, as I don't have the respect I have for them as I do Pittsburg. To relate this to Magic, I hate Black, but not because it sucks, but because it kicks my ass all the time. I hate Green because it sucks, but you wont see my giving green props or nice comments very often.

2nd, I wanted to not have people who liked the color do the reviews for the color, because I didn't want people praising all the cards of a color. You notice that I didn't assign Blue to myself. I took artifact and Black. I purposely made certain I didn't get White, Red and Blue, as those are my colors traditionally.

Truth be told, I can't stand control decks currently. They are sissy cards compaired to what I used to play, and I can't stand the garbage control they sell us for $3.29 a pack.

I am working with a few guys here in the forums on a few Discard decks.. note to be made is that the decks I have been focusing on as of late have been primarily Black.

I will warn you though, you may not want to steer clear of part three of my Casual Magic article, as it will be focusing on Blue, so if you don't like Blue or control, hang out and read a different article for a week

Seriously though, thank you for reading my work and responding. That is why I do it and have done so for so long, I want to keep your minds active, entertained and informed.

Lastly, I did make alot of comments in the article as attacks on cards and then gave them good grades. It was for the humor, and not to be taken as authentic. I was being funny. I can only hope that when you see me tear a card apart, then give it an A-, you can figure out that I am trying to get a smile from you

[ControlledChaos]

Hey, I've been reading your articles for awhile now and finally decided to post my thoughts on... your thoughts. Now, I know you're writing on these cards for casual play. However, competitive play or 'metagame' is the flavour of the month (or at least at all the places I play magic). Cards that are good in competitive play are usually also good cards in casual. Now that I got that out of the way, let me get to my main point.

When I read your reviews of cards, sometimes I agree totally with your bad or good ratings (especially when there are bad cards that are just b-a-d), but then I wonder what you're thinking. Up until your article on the Future Sight 'Blue' cards, I held your opinion somewhat high. From time to time you had some sketchy ideas about certain cards, but I let it go because we obviously can't have identical opinions. I'm aware of that, but honestly, I couldnt stay silent anymore.

After reading your review of the black cards, I'll admit it wasn't as 'bad' to me as your review of the blue cards. But some cards you reviewed this time around, that you gave such a high rating vexed me, compared to the lower ratings you gave to others. Cards like Festering March and Pooling Venom... cards that I never see played, are given higher ratings than cards like Street Wraith, that are played in Vintage for crying out loud. Festering March is at best a Nausea that keeps activating every 3 turns on your opponents creatures, which needs at least 5 mana to activate it immeadiately when you need to use it, aside from playing it maybe on the 3rd turn, then waiting until the 6th turn to wipe your opponents 1/1s... oh man... how helpful. How about I stick Pyroclasm on a Scepter and do that, but kill all the 2/2s, and be able to use it -every- turn. I'm comparing to a card printed several years ago, but you get my point. But people who play casual don't neccesarily stick to a particular format, like Standard of Extended, they just play with the cards they have that they like, and I can't tell you not one person I know, experienced player or not, has ever considered playing that heap of garbage. Damn you Teferi... he's the least of your problems if you're playing that card in your deck.

I'd like to 'rip' apart your article about the 'blue' cards of Future Sight, but this isn't the thread for it, and posting the same 'rant' as you might be ready to call this, seems like a waste of time. But I'm going to briefly state my opinion here. Cards like Delay, Pact of Negation and Venser are a hell of a lot better than Mystic Speculation, Shapeshifter's Marrow, Spellweaver Volute and Take Possession. Why you rated the latter 'A'... holy crap. Sorry, but have you ever played control? Maybe some of these cards are better or worse in multiplayer, but most decks are made for one-on-one.

Now, if you're still reading this and have not gone straight to posting a 'clever' comeback, then let me leave you on another note. I do enjoy reading your (previous) articles. You do still have a good knowledge of certain cards, but I believe you may have badly misjudged some of the aforementioned cards. Sorry for seeming like an angry ranter, but I needed to get this off my chest. Feel free to shoot me down if you like, but I've shared my opinion, and I'm happy. I do look forward to reading your response.

[Tynion]

No problem with your opinion, let me first point out that I didn't write the Blue article, that was Micheal Zeora. I was actually to be found not too long ago agueing with the smart guys here in the forums about the strength of Pact of Negotiation. It is a damn good card, and so are Delay and the other cards mentioned.

What you also need to consider when reading my set review articles is that I need to give you my FIRST IMPRESSION, as is the title of the article series. I don't take time to sit and debate with my alter-ego on what the cards may turn out to be. I simply read the card and write the raw reaction I get, then as I edit, I mold it into a clear message. Also, I try to keep in mind, Standard, Draft, Sealed, and to some extent Extended.. and definately Casual.

The 'Nasea' card is not as bad as you would think in sealed environments. Nor is it bad if you are playing a certain Blue enchantment that gives you 3 Upkeeps, and so you begin to trigger this card two and three times a turn, which, as we both know, will kill most of your opponents creatures. That is what I was thinking. More to the point, in a Mono Black deck, I could set one up, and then the turn it is resolving, you'd cast another, so every three turns, you get a free -2/-2 (Infest) and then you get another and cast it, so every three turns you get a free -3/-3 (Mulilate). In a traditional MBC deck, that card would have seen alot of play, however, in todays Standard, people have decided to run alot of goyf discard decks instead. I can't help it that I am stuck in the Onslaught Standard days. Forgive me. I am still having nightmares of Visara, Innocent Blood, Corrupt, and Haunting Echos.

But the bottom line is that those were my first impressions of the cards.

Pooling Venom.. I tried really hard to use that card, and just found it clunky. I'd rather play Red and pop the land outright.

I do want to thank you for reading, and hope that you continue reading my work. I have some really good ideas dancing in my head for upcoming work, and hope you will tune in and see what I have planned for your reading pleasures.

[Overseer76]

I think you're math is off.

I've never used poison counters offensively myself, but it seems to me that adding "poisonous 3" to a creature sort of adds the equivalent of +6/+0 since it only takes ten poison counters to achieve victory.

Also, if I had Nihiliths in a deck, I'd expect to get that baby out by around turn 4.

Play a turn one creature like Festering Goblin (since this would likely be a speedy disruption deck), suspend Nihilith on turn two, watch your opponent shrug and play that land fetch sorcery anyway, on turn three one time counter comes off naturally while you play something like Mind Rot to force two discards while pressing the goblin attack in search of an unbalanced trade. By turn four, there are only a couple of counters left and you can easily kill any potential blockers or force more discards/counterspells and help remove the last time counters from Nihilith in the process. Black is so good at forcing cards into opponents' graveyards that not getting a quickly suspended Nihilith into play by turn six indicates that you're doing something wrong.

[Streetz]

It's good to see some really well thought out and well-stated comments about this article. You guys should comment more often on other articles.

[ControlledChaos]

Actually, using 3 cards from black from this very set make a very potent combo. First is dropping the Nihilith on turn 2, and then on turn 3 dropping your Augur of Skulls. At this point you could pop the Augur on your next upkeep and get 3 counters removed in total off the Nihilith, and then you can promptly play Bitter Ordeal and squelch two cards from your opponents deck. For extra flavour, use Cry of Contrition to wipe 2 more cards from your opponents hand, leaving him losing 6 cards in 'total' in 2 turns and staring down a 4/4 Fear with haste. Ouch.

And then after that, shoot an Extirpate towards him and watch him cry Uncle. Good game.

There are better MBC decks in Standard at the moment, but rogue decks being what they are, unexpected and all, it can still be a surprise attack. It may not be extremely potent against aggro, but watch control and combo decks squirm in their seat when you cut their handsize in two and ping two cards from their deck (or more). And besides, Damnation nips aggro in the butt anyways.

Augur of Skulls is probably the best Augur in my opinion, but thats just me. Attack the hand is always great, and while the room for regenerating Augur has it's limits, it's still never a bad thing to have. This card is absolute gold in Tarmorack.

Bitter Ordeal, unfortunately, is like the puppy at the kennel waiting to be bought. It screams to be broken in, having the brother keyword to 'storm' embedded in it. Since it is a timeshifted 'future' card, hopefully we'll see more gravestorm cards, that work their synergy with this one, and give it the glory it deserves.

Mass of Ghouls is what it is, a Vanilla creature. 5 for 5/3? Well you may not like it now, but wait until you draft it. It's like Dross Crocodile, and for 1 mana more you get more junk in the trunk. Yeah, thats all its good for, but the real reason it's 'nice' is the full picture card. I mean, it got reprinted one set later in Tenth after all.

And finally, Shimian Specter. This card (in my opinion) will never see the light of day in the current metagame. Why? With a 2/2 body for 4 mana, there's too much that can wipe it from the face of the gameboard, for half the mana you payed for it. This is a 2 for 1 special you want no part of. Not even the prospect of Cranial on a stick can make this look good. Hey, there's already a 2/2 flyer that attacks the hand - Hypnotic Specter. And he costs one less than his higher casting cost bretheren. His striking ability may not be as good as Shimian's, but at least he can shoot at anything in the hand including lands and you can cast him on first turn with dark ritual.

[Tynion]

I agree with all of your points guys and I don't like it one bit. How the heck can I play devil's advocate when your clearly right.

The other day I got caught with a bad hand and my opponent got a Hypnotic in play. I was playing Blue Green and had no way in hand to deal with the Spector. Thank GOD it was only a Hypnotic and not a Shimian. I dealt with the random discard for a few turns and top decked a Sunken Hope and forced the darn Spector into dealing with Summoning Sickness forever, but if that guy was a Shimian, he would have tore my rear end off and I never would have saw it again.

Have you two guys taken a look at our Tournament Section of the forums (found here)? We work on tourny decks, mainly rogue style, and give each other pointers and having seen your good logic, I would suggest heading over and seeing if you can help some of our decks. We also have a Casual deck forum as well if you prefer that environment.

Thanks again for reading.

[Yezzandrix]

What I find very interesting (and good) is that noone gets shut down, and opinions are treated respectfully here.

Good things indeed, even if they don't come as big surprises to me

At the three new posters: I hope to see you around in the regular forums sometime, too.

[Phate]

I apologise for taking so long to reply - I'm adminning my own (non-MtG-related) board, and it's very busy.

@Streetz

First, let's get this out of the way... I used to play a game called Urban Dead, involving a zombie apocalypse.

Hold on, I'm not that crazy. That wasn't my confession.

In this game, one of the things you could do if you were alive was spray-paint things on random walls. It became a fad to spraypaint various derivatives and parodies of the phrase "STREETS IS WATCHIN" everywhere. For example, "STREETS IS WATCHIN TV," "IM IN UR STREETS! IM WATCHIN' ALL UR MANS!," "SOMEWHERE OUT THERE IS A STREETS," etc. And everytime I read your name, it reminds me of that.

Anyway, my odd past aside... you're welcome. Again, I feel that someone who primarily plays green, and is thus most familiar with green, and is most appreciative of green, should review green, and etc.

Thank you - and I'll take that a step further - I'm going to the Lorwyn prerelease. As soon as I get back, I'll give you my first impressions of Lorwyn. =]

@ Tynion

The best input and argument in response to your work? That's high praise. *ego swells*

I think you missed my point a little bit. I love Black. I like Blue, too. But the issue wasn't whether a colour is objectively good, (because honestly, I don't read MDV to find out what to take to a tourney, I use it to glean deck ideas to bring to the kitchen table) but rather whether the reviewer understood and appreciated the basic strengths of the colour. (Also, Green sucks. Amen.)

I don't think there would have been a problem with having those people review those colours - even among the black cards, there are just some that suck. You should have done Blue, IMO. (Red, White, and Blue? *coughjingoistcough* =P)

I'll look forward to see your discard decks... and your control decks as well.

Merry meet.