First Impressions: Zendikar - Red. - by Drathro

**Streetz** · 10-15-2009, 01:34 AM

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http://www.magicdeckvortex.com/mdvarticle0533.htm

Please read it, enjoy it and discuss it here.

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**Cashew** · 10-15-2009, 02:07 AM

Very few qualms with the article as a whole. Interesting takes, don't fully agree on all points. I'm not interested in Red for Standard really, but the impacts on Goblins and Limited are great. Bladetusk Boar is a card I'm looking at closely. I've heard numerous tales of them eatting folks alive.

Quote:

Bored now.

Love the Vampire Willow reference.

Wombatish · 10-15-2009, 02:37 AM

I've been pretty unimpressed with Chandra Ablaze. I had her played on me last FNM in a deck based around her, but she was completely irrelevant.

Serra Redeemer · 10-15-2009, 04:01 AM

Chandra sure as hell is better than Nissa Revane bull. $11.99 for that piece of toilet paper. Chandra Ablaze has the POTENTIAL to get broken. Will she I don't know. I am going to build a deck around her and see. But I got to get the pieces for it first.

GRUNT · 10-15-2009, 08:49 AM

If Burst Lightning is only a B, what do rate Shock? :S Like you said, it's better than Shock in every way and until Lightning Bolt came back, Shock saw plenty of action over a pretty long period of time. I'd say Shock is at least a B, and Burst Lightning ought to be A-.

Goblin Shortcutter ought to be at least a C. The little guy's actually pretty useful. While I think that the Bushwhacker will usually be a better two-drop (especially later in the game), bypassing blockers early in the game is nice. Not good enough to make it a great card, but I think it's 'decent', at least.

Bramble Creeper may seem really bad at first, but wow, it's so good when used with Meekstone, and....no, it's still a bad card, and so is Mark of Mutiny. Ok fine, Mark of Mutiny isn't completely terrible, but I consider the card to be a 'C' at best.

I think Punishing Fire will be more useful than you expect.

knuckles29 · 10-15-2009, 09:02 AM

I think your review is just fine. ZEN is an average set for the most part. It has like 10 cards that will last past type 2, and a few standout for the casual ring. You really weren't given much to work with.

On a side note, Punishing Fire has a bit of use as they are recur-able. I use them to kill more creatures and worry about the player later. They "combo" with the new Chandra. And as far as my own motives, it involves Knollspine Invocation and things like Grove of the Burnwillows activated Stormbind-Meteor Storm

I really only see Burst Lightning mattering in the long run. The new Ball Lightning Deck did well this weekend at the Philly 5k, but that probably was more the pilot then the ship.

again, well graded; no disputes

Drathro · 10-15-2009, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cashew

Love the Vampire Willow reference.

Gotta love Vampire Willow.

Big Bad Willow was a little too veiny.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serra Redeemer

Chandra sure as hell is better than Nissa Revane bull.

The Casual player's issue with Nissa Revane is that she's very one-dimensional. If you play Nissa, you play Elves. Oh sure, there's some uber-Johnny out there dying to build a non-Elf Nissa Revane deck; good luck, bonehead. Chandra Ablaze is at least flexible, but like I said, she seems to have a built-in risk-factor: when you play her, you are either almost out of ammo for ability one, or you make her vulnerable to removal with ability two.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNT

If Burst Lightning is only a B, what do rate Shock?

I rate Shock as a C. It's the baseline. Interestingly, in Zen Limited, Shock would have been rated higher anyway, as there are many relevant <= 2 toughness creatures.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNT

Goblin Shortcutter ought to be at least a C.

A few sets ago, I would have even rated it higher than that, but two-mana two-power creatures are suddenly par for the course in Red. I guess "average" with a 10% useful ability could have rated a 'C.' Maybe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNT

I think Punishing Fire will be more useful than you expect.

We can only hope. I was thinking it could be tech against Vampires, what with Nighthawk gaining two life per attack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNT

Mark of Mutiny isn't completely terrible, but I consider the card to be a 'C' at best.

Act of Treason will probably overshadow Mark of Mutiny for tournament sideboard slots because of Mark's +1/+1 counter, but both of these cards produce memorable "I win" moments, which are very relevant to MDV's casual focus. Your comparison card Bramble Creeper is rarely if ever going to unexpectedly swing the momentum of a game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by knuckles29

ZEN is an average set for the most part. It has like 10 cards that will last past type 2, and a few standout for the casual ring. You really weren't given much to work with.

The one thing you quickly learn about Zendikar, if you play any Limited, is that it has very few truly "unplayable" cards. I think that WotC skewed the overall power level more towards the average/middle to make Draft and Sealed a little less bomb-reliant. Because of this, the top end Red cards took a hit this time around, while Black, and to a lesser degree White, managed to squeak by with some powerhouses anyway.

EDIT: Actually, the one card I'm really starting to second-guess myself about is Lavaball Trap. An instant-speed four-damage sweeper could become relevant, even at ridiculous mana costs... or not. Looking forward to seeing if I am right or wrong on this one!

ChampionKitsune · 10-15-2009, 10:35 PM

My first impulse is to lurve Chandra Ablaze, even though she she looks kind of janky and suitable only in graveyard strategy decks.

Anyway, I think your analysis of Quest for Pure Flame is a bit off; multiples aren't dead draws, you can use multiples of these to double damage a couple times, similar to how Tarox Bladewing's grandeur ability works.

Drathro · 10-20-2009, 02:59 PM

I don't like being wrong, but when I am, I'll gladly admit it. When I saw the following deck from Pro Tour Austin, I just knew I had to share:

Rubin Zoo by Brian Kibler, 1st at PT Austin 2009
Lands: (24) 4 Arid Mesa 1 Forest 1 Ghost Quarter 4 Grove of the Burnwillows 2 Marsh Flats 4 Misty Rainforest 1 Mountain 1 Plains 1 Sacred Foundry 2 Stomping Ground 1 Temple Garden 2 Treetop Village Creatures: (21) 3 Baneslayer Angel 4 Knight of the Reliquary 3 Noble Hierarch 3 Qasali Pridemage 4 Tarmogoyf 4 Wild Nacatl	Other Spells: (15) 4 Lightning Bolt 2 Lightning Helix 4 Path to Exile 4 Punishing Fire 1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant	Sideboard: (15) 1 Kataki, War's Wage 4 Meddling Mage 3 Ancient Grudge 3 Blood Moon 3 Ghost Quarter 1 Hallowed Fountain

That's right, this winning deck uses four Punishing Fire, a card to which I gave a 'C-'. I guess Extended's abundance of low-toughness creatures is the perfect venue for a two-damage burn spell that you can return to your hand just by tapping for a Red mana!

Serra Redeemer · 10-21-2009, 12:51 PM

HaHa, Punishing Fire says whenever a "Player" gains life you may pay

to put it back into your hand. So, grab it when you gain life to damage your opponent.

Drathro · 10-21-2009, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serra Redeemer

HaHa, Punishing Fire says whenever a "Player" gains life you may pay

to put it back into your hand. So, grab it when you gain life to damage your opponent.

I'm sorry, but no. It definitely specifies an opponent. From Gatherer (emphasis added):

Quote:

Punishing Fire deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
Whenever an opponent gains life, you may pay

. If you do, return Punishing Fire from your graveyard to your hand.

If it said player, even my first impression would have given it an 'A.'

Serra Redeemer · 10-21-2009, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drathro

Ooh, sorry, no. It definitely specifies an opponent. From Gatherer (emphasis added):

If it said player, it would be at least an 'A.'

Sorry, I was basing it off what I saw in Card of the day, and misread that.

CoglineErro · 10-21-2009, 02:41 PM

Hellfire Mongrel: Only CMC and it being a creature make this weaker than The Rack. I think this is a really nice distraction for your opponent's kill spells.

Quest for the Pure Flame: I believe the phrase you were looking for was "Phase 1: Enable Quest for Pure Flame. Phase 2: ? Phase 3: Profit" But, yeah, what ChampionKitsune said, If you draw a second one just lay it down since sacing the quest is part of the activation. Plus you can activate them all at the same time and quadruple your damage.

Drathro · 10-23-2009, 10:40 AM

Did anybody check out the deck lists in the article? Too Casual? Not Casual enough?

Obviously the one deck with a mana base full of original duals is a fantasy for some budget players. Should I stick to more reasonable mana bases in the future?

knuckles29 · 10-23-2009, 01:14 PM

Needed more Tangleroot!!!

It isn't a bad starting point for anyone. The manabase thing isn't a real issue since it is an off-the-collar list that wasn't meant to do anything but spark ideas.

Mana-bases, IMO, aren't anything but a suggestion (unless they are tuned lists that explain the choice of lands)

As a suggestion, Evoke creatures! Ingot Chewer is a 'Bolt + Shatter at 2RR. Shriekmaw is a budget (mana-wise) Cruel Ultimatum. And if you like the idea, you can use Primal Beyond, Ancient Ziggurat, and other budget 5c lands in the vein of Rupture Spire or Grand Coliseum

-Punishing Fire- A card can have an average rating and still be amazing. The point is context. See Plumeveil; I loved him because of flash since day 1, the pro's only embraced him once the enviroment shifted. I'm not a pioneer, but the point was average cards can be better than imagined in certain decks. Real top of the list example: Donate or Vampire Hexmage

10-15-2009, 01:34 AM	#1
Streetz ...figuring things out... MDV Owner Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Villa Park, IL Posts: 11,069 Blog Entries: 30	First Impressions: Zendikar - Red. - by Drathro This thread is reserved for the dicussion of the following article: http://www.magicdeckvortex.com/mdvarticle0533.htm Please read it, enjoy it and discuss it here. What did you like about the article? Was it inspiring, informational, ingenius? Was it inappropriate? Was there anything you really liked or didn't like about it? Let the author know here! Thanks! NOTE: This thread is posted before the article goes live. If the article isn't up yet, please check back later. __________________ Webmaster, Admin and Owner of Magic Deck Vortex and leader of the Forum [Wizards]. Join MDV's Facebook Page! or check out MDV's MySpace Page!! ...You can also find me on Twitter. Have cards to trade?**

10-15-2009, 02:37 AM	#3
Wombatish Elite Mage Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 225	Re: First Impressions: Zendikar - Red. - by Drathro I've been pretty unimpressed with Chandra Ablaze. I had her played on me last FNM in a deck based around her, but she was completely irrelevant.

10-15-2009, 04:01 AM	#4
Serra Redeemer Vortex Planeswalker Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Somewhere Posts: 1,793	Re: First Impressions: Zendikar - Red. - by Drathro Chandra sure as hell is better than Nissa Revane bull. $11.99 for that piece of toilet paper. Chandra Ablaze has the POTENTIAL to get broken. Will she I don't know. I am going to build a deck around her and see. But I got to get the pieces for it first. __________________ There is nothing hotter than a Girl about to burn you! Serra Redeemer Cookie Counter Spoiler: Deviant Audio: Android Squirrel: MDV Win-Loss-Tie Spoiler: MDV Tourney Record: 2-0 Elistral, 10-10-0 Played: DA, Alaster, FM, Castle, Elistral

10-15-2009, 08:49 AM	#5
GRUNT Vortex Initiate Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,087	Re: First Impressions: Zendikar - Red. - by Drathro If Burst Lightning is only a B, what do rate Shock? :S Like you said, it's better than Shock in every way and until Lightning Bolt came back, Shock saw plenty of action over a pretty long period of time. I'd say Shock is at least a B, and Burst Lightning ought to be A-. Goblin Shortcutter ought to be at least a C. The little guy's actually pretty useful. While I think that the Bushwhacker will usually be a better two-drop (especially later in the game), bypassing blockers early in the game is nice. Not good enough to make it a great card, but I think it's 'decent', at least. Bramble Creeper may seem really bad at first, but wow, it's so good when used with Meekstone, and....no, it's still a bad card, and so is Mark of Mutiny. Ok fine, Mark of Mutiny isn't completely terrible, but I consider the card to be a 'C' at best. I think Punishing Fire will be more useful than you expect.

10-15-2009, 09:02 AM	#6
knuckles29 Patient Apprentice Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 32	Re: First Impressions: Zendikar - Red. - by Drathro I think your review is just fine. ZEN is an average set for the most part. It has like 10 cards that will last past type 2, and a few standout for the casual ring. You really weren't given much to work with. On a side note, Punishing Fire has a bit of use as they are recur-able. I use them to kill more creatures and worry about the player later. They "combo" with the new Chandra. And as far as my own motives, it involves Knollspine Invocation and things like Grove of the Burnwillows activated Stormbind-Meteor Storm I really only see Burst Lightning mattering in the long run. The new Ball Lightning Deck did well this weekend at the Philly 5k, but that probably was more the pilot then the ship. again, well graded; no disputes

10-15-2009, 10:35 PM	#8
ChampionKitsune Apprentice Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Illinois, USA Posts: 18	Re: First Impressions: Zendikar - Red. - by Drathro My first impulse is to lurve Chandra Ablaze, even though she she looks kind of janky and suitable only in graveyard strategy decks. Anyway, I think your analysis of Quest for Pure Flame is a bit off; multiples aren't dead draws, you can use multiples of these to double damage a couple times, similar to how Tarox Bladewing's grandeur ability works.

10-21-2009, 12:51 PM	#10
Serra Redeemer Vortex Planeswalker Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Somewhere Posts: 1,793	Re: First Impressions: Zendikar - Red. - by Drathro HaHa, Punishing Fire says whenever a "Player" gains life you may pay to put it back into your hand. So, grab it when you gain life to damage your opponent. __________________ There is nothing hotter than a Girl about to burn you! Serra Redeemer Cookie Counter Spoiler: Deviant Audio: Android Squirrel: MDV Win-Loss-Tie Spoiler: MDV Tourney Record: 2-0 Elistral, 10-10-0 Played: DA, Alaster, FM, Castle, Elistral

10-23-2009, 10:40 AM	#14
Drathro Vortex Initiate Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Saratoga Springs Area Posts: 1,091 Blog Entries: 52	Re: First Impressions: Zendikar - Red. - by Drathro Did anybody check out the deck lists in the article? Too Casual? Not Casual enough? Obviously the one deck with a mana base full of original duals is a fantasy for some budget players. Should I stick to more reasonable mana bases in the future? __________________ I think you're confusing me with someone much less awesome.

10-23-2009, 01:14 PM	#15
knuckles29 Patient Apprentice Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 32	Re: First Impressions: Zendikar - Red. - by Drathro Needed more Tangleroot!!! It isn't a bad starting point for anyone. The manabase thing isn't a real issue since it is an off-the-collar list that wasn't meant to do anything but spark ideas. Mana-bases, IMO, aren't anything but a suggestion (unless they are tuned lists that explain the choice of lands) As a suggestion, Evoke creatures! Ingot Chewer is a 'Bolt + Shatter at 2RR. Shriekmaw is a budget (mana-wise) Cruel Ultimatum. And if you like the idea, you can use Primal Beyond, Ancient Ziggurat, and other budget 5c lands in the vein of Rupture Spire or Grand Coliseum -Punishing Fire- A card can have an average rating and still be amazing. The point is context. See Plumeveil; I loved him because of flash since day 1, the pro's only embraced him once the enviroment shifted. I'm not a pioneer, but the point was average cards can be better than imagined in certain decks. Real top of the list example: Donate or Vampire Hexmage Last edited by knuckles29; 10-24-2009 at 10:22 PM.

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