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Old 10-20-2009, 12:03 AM   #1
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Zendikar Limited Guide - by Cashew

This thread is reserved for the dicussion of the following article:

http://www.magicdeckvortex.com/mdvarticle0536.htm

Please read it, enjoy it and discuss it here.

What did you like about the article? Was it inspiring, informational, ingenius? Was it inappropriate? Was there anything you really liked or didn't like about it?

Let the author know here!

Thanks!

**NOTE: This thread is posted before the article goes live. If the article isn't up yet, please check back later.
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:56 AM   #2
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Re: Zendikar Limited Guide - by Cashew

Particularly in the creature-oriented limited environment I think Electropotence should get more love. Turning all your creature drops into burn is huge. It's too bad Esperzoa is not in this set, that would be one hell of a combo.
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Old 10-20-2009, 05:34 AM   #3
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Re: Zendikar Limited Guide - by Cashew

I ran Electropotence in pre-release (2 of them actually). I was not impressed at all. It always seems that by the time you can use it the impact isn't there.
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Old 10-20-2009, 11:01 AM   #4
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Re: Zendikar Limited Guide - by Cashew

Calling this one for best article of 2009. It's in depth, it's intelligent, and despite its length is easy to read and navigate. The only thing I could disagree with (and given the amount of content this is amazing) is the mention that World Queller will go up in price. It's only about 1-2 dollars now and I don't see it ever scraping about 4-5. It's good, but its no money rare no matter how much you may like it.

Definitely a must read for anyone who plays Limited.
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Old 10-20-2009, 11:28 AM   #5
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Re: Zendikar Limited Guide - by Cashew

In my experience, the common allies are decent in non-ally decks if you can get them in multiples. Umara Raptor is particularly efficient by the time you get two or three on the field.

Last edited by biske_la_vert; 10-20-2009 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 10-20-2009, 02:25 PM   #6
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Re: Zendikar Limited Guide - by Cashew

I'd like to note that if you even have just a couple allies, Stonework Puma is well worth including as your 23rd card, partly because of the ally bonus, but mostly because a 2/2 Artifact Creature in Zen Limited blocks and trades with all of the common intimidate creatures.
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:26 PM   #7
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Re: Zendikar Limited Guide - by Cashew

Electropotence is great in draft- comboes amazingly with zektar shrine expedition.

Just a few notes about the article:

Kor skyfisher is really really good. I think you underrate him.
Warren Instigator is bad. I think you overrate him.
Same for Mindbreak Trap. I'd be happy to sell these at 8.

Allies can be very powerful, and going with them as a strategy is fine. Just make sure you send the right signals and pick up mana fixing, which should be plentiful enough to run 3 colors.
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:37 PM   #8
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Re: Zendikar Limited Guide - by Cashew

I'm not an experienced Limited player, but I would think that Archive Trap would be pretty bomb assuming you get it. Assuming your opponent is playing a 40-card deck, by the time you play the Trap you would be milling fully half of his remaining deck, if not more. And blue has enough decent blockers (kraken, drake, Tsunami, etc) to keep you in the game long enough to use the trap at full cost.
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Old 10-20-2009, 05:24 PM   #9
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Re: Zendikar Limited Guide - by Cashew

Quote:
Kor skyfisher is really really good. I think you underrate him.
Warren Instigator is bad. I think you overrate him.
Same for Mindbreak Trap. I'd be happy to sell these at 8.
Kor Skyfisher I in no way underrate. It is one of my favorite cards from Zendikar. I like a lot of the cards similar to him more in terms of sheer power, but he's a card I'm always happy to see in a pack.

Warren Instigator I'm not sure on. I know that him being Mythic and potentially amazing makes his value high right now. Its value should retain after Standard cycles. That makes it a little more worthwhile to me as well.

$8 is still a decent amount of money. Mindbreak will probably remain a Legacy/Vintage sideboard card until people stop playing Magic. Not many cards can claim that.

Quote:
In my experience, the common allies are decent in non-ally decks if you can get them in multiples. Umara Raptor is particularly efficient by the time you get two or three on the field.
I have to admit I underrated them at first. The more I play them the more I like them Limited. The ones I like the most remain the same - Umara Raptor, Oran Rief Survivalist, the Blademaster, and the black Sell Sword.

Quote:
I'm not an experienced Limited player, but I would think that Archive Trap would be pretty bomb assuming you get it. Assuming your opponent is playing a 40-card deck, by the time you play the Trap you would be milling fully half of his remaining deck, if not more. And blue has enough decent blockers (kraken, drake, Tsunami, etc) to keep you in the game long enough to use the trap at full cost.
I've had two people try to mill me with Hedron Crabs. They were two of my easiest wins. The problem with mill in Limited is if you don't draw your mill cards right away you're usually getting torn alive. A single evasive creature - which good players pick a lot of - can and will bypass defenses and eat you alive.
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Old 10-20-2009, 10:18 PM   #10
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Re: Zendikar Limited Guide - by Cashew

Great article, with perfect timing, I'm just starting my sealed deck league! I'm actually fond of my Khalni Heart Expedition. I never use it for the mana, just the lands it gives. Here's my landfall package. Any clunkers?

Enablers: Harrow, Khalni Heart Expedition, Khalni Gem, Kor Skyfisher (if needed).

Lanfallers: Turntimber Basilisk, Territorial Baloth, Grazing Gladeheart, Adventuring Gear, Plated Geopede, Geyser Glider

Cards that like Harrow/Heart effects: Timbermaw Larva, Spire Barragex2

I realize that juding them in a vacuum is tough, but...

I was wondering about everyone's opinions on these two uncommons:
Cobra Trap and Greenweaver Druid

Is the trap worth 6? I don't need a lot of mana, so the druid seems redundant.

Also, what about these?
Hellfire Mongrel
Goblin Shortcutter
Goblin Bushwacker
Nissa's Chosen

The 2/1 drops don't seem too impressive, and the hound seems like it should be in a deck.

One last thing, Blade of the Bloodchief, with no vampires is it worth it? I think not. What if it's a foil?
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Old 10-22-2009, 01:39 AM   #11
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Re: Zendikar Limited Guide - by Cashew

Harrow = Good for Landfall
Khalni Heart Expedition = A dud often. I don't like gimmicks.
Khalni Gem = Great acceleration and no gimmicks.
Kor Skyfisher = Great regardless 3 toughess + evasion = $

Turntimber = Not as good as I had hoped.
Territorial = Good offense.
Grazing = Surpringly effective.
Adventuring Gear = great card to just play
Plated Geopede = decent even without landfall.
Geyser Glider = not that great, but if you have nothing else it will do pig.

Hellfire Mongrel = decent.
Goblins = great if you're weenie powering.
Nissa's Chosen = alright, but only because of a 3 toughness.

Blade of the Bloodchief = good regardless.
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Old 10-22-2009, 05:33 AM   #12
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Re: Zendikar Limited Guide - by Cashew

In case you're wondering how I'm doing with my drafts and using the guide. I played four drafts tonight. First one out round one due to mana screw. Second I placed second third & fourth I placed first. Sad part is what I thought was my best deck did the worst. Here's the winning deck lists:

Heavy Blue Black  
Lands
9 Island
8 Swamp

Creatures
1 Bala Ged Thief
2 Giant Scorpion
1 Gomazoa
1 Guul Draz Specter
1 Hagra Diabolist
1 Nimana Sell-Sword
1 Reckless Scholar
2 Seascape Aerialist
1 Sphinx of Lost Truths
2 Windrider Eel
Spells
1 Disfigure
1 Hideous End
1 Into the Roil
2 Paralyzing Grasp
1 Rite of Replication
2 Soul Stair Expedition
1 Vampire's Bite
1 Whiplash Trap

This deck capitalized on strong defense evasion and allies. I would sideboard out the Aerialists against non-black decks or slower decks to put in Surrakar Maurader. against heavy flight decks Sky Ruin Drake and Summoner's Bane came in. I also had a third Giant Scorpion if I thought I needed it.

Favorite moment: Kicked Rite of Replication on a Hagra Diablist for instant win. I also kicked it on a Nimana Sell-Sword.

I seriously won with this  
Lands
9 Island
9 Plains

Creatures
1 Caravan Hurda
1 Felidar Sovereign
1 Gomazoa
1 Kor Aeronaut
1 Kor Cartographer
1 Kor Hookmaster
1 Kor Skyfisher
1 Kraken Hatchling
1 Living Tsunami
1 Sphinx of Lost Truths
2 Windrider Eel
1 World Queller
Spells
2 Cancel
1 Expedition Map
1 Explorer's Scope
1 Ior Ruin Expedition
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Narrow Escape
1 Pitfall Trap
1 Summoner's Bane

I had absolutely no sideboard. I was actually split between Blue - White - Green. I ended up having to go heavy White - Blue half-way thru second pack. I won through tight control and lots of Eel-Action.

No favorite moment. Every game was hard fought and won. I decked one opponent who had no answer to my tight defense we were almost mirrored in terms of strength. The final game I forced my opponent out of time after he took too long trying to eek out a win.

Strongest Deck I thought that went out in first round  
Lands
1 Piranha Marsh
9 Plains
7 Swamp

Creatures
1 Emeria Angel
2 Giant Scorpion
1 Kazandu Blademaster
1 Kor Cartographer
2 Kor Skyfisher
3 Nimana Sell-Sword
1 Ondu Cleric
1 Vampire Lacerator
1 Vampire Nighthawk
Spells
1 Arrow Volley Trap
1 Expedition Map
1 Explorer's Scope
1 Hideous End
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Khalni Gem
2 Mire Blight
1 Narrow Escape
1 Soul Stair Expedition

I have no clue how I lost besides mana screw. Mire Blight was a dud though. The first game I won with ease. The second game I was at two land with tons of great 3 cmc spells in hand. Third game again with land coming in slow by time I thought I had the board slightly under control I got whiplash trapped twice in a row.
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Old 10-22-2009, 12:31 PM   #13
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Re: Zendikar Limited Guide - by Cashew

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Turntimber = Not as good as I had hoped.
Obviously you can't always pull this off, but if you end up less aggressive with two Turntimber Basilisk, two Spidersilk Net, a Harrow, and a Frontier Guide, that's pretty freakin' sweet. I was taking down creature after creature with Spidersilked Basilisks. I suspect that regeneration Aura will work just as well with the Basilisks.
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